Last week , I spoke with one of my punk rock and scientific discipline heroes , Bad Religion vocalist / evolutionary biologist Greg Graffin , about his new book , Population Wars , which drops today . And he told me why our view of evolution want to move past pure competition .
In your first book , Anarchy Evolution , you tackle ideas related to the battle between God and scientific discipline . This book takes a different approach with have citizenry to reconsider their views . How did it derive about ?
Whereas Anarchy Evolution dealt with phylogenesis , and its more or less troubled family relationship with religion , this book instead asks the great unwashed to dispute their supposal about competition and the struggle for beingness . In that respect , it ’s my worldview on ecology , and the perseveration of species and communities of populations that are currently existing on the planet .
Even though I ’m well poetize in my own science , as a neuroscience grad bookman , I still feel newfangled to this idea that organic evolution does n’t have a intention . Why is it hard for even us scientist to take a step back and appreciate that these physical process do n’t happen with any intent ?
It ’s because you ’re a human being . masses have to be introduced to science , and scientist , as more than just data and data point generators . It ’s not that unvoiced for a scientist to come to the decision that biological science is just a random walk , that existence is a random walk .
But deeply important to all of science — something that Carl Sagan talked about , something that my consultant William Provine babble a lot about — are the implications of science , the human and social implications of all this information . Let ’s front it : Our community , our societal connections , are really all that matters . It ’s this realm of social connectivity that we must issue forth to terms with so as to get along with all the other universe on the planet .
Every enlightened citizen has to see him- or herself as in some style a caretaker of the planet . Our mintage has intruded on so many different ecosystem , we ’ve cover the entire grimace of the satellite . There ’s not an column inch of the open of the Earth that has n’t been mapped . We have to ask ourselves what we desire to do with this power . Do we want to continue obliterating each other , and every other species ? Or do we desire to seek to become steward of our own surround , keeper of our own major planet , and guide the evolution of the future ? It ’s a moral issue , and it ’s something that postulate not necessarily skill by itself , but the deduction of the scientific data point . It really receive to the core of asking ourselves what it mean to be human .
Logging in British Columbia , Canada . David Stanley . CC BY 2.0 .
So how does science inform that worldview ?
I ’m take as a paleontologist , so I tend to look at the planet from the long view . I expect at the biosphere in damage of deep evolutionary account , I look at the residential area of mintage of today in terminal figure of their longsighted history of development from the geological past .
There ’s a whole chapter in the Word devoted to bacteria . When you consider that bacterium on our own bodies outnumber us ten to one , and that hundreds of dissimilar species of bacteria interact with us on a daily basis , you get to ask , “ Well wait a minute . I ’m carrying around not just my own genome , but I ’m carrying around the genomes of hundreds of other species , species that impress my daily life , not only in terms of what I eat , but also in terms of the elbow room I think ? ” It ’s not just your selfish genes that you ’re carrying around . It ’s a biotic community of other organisms and genes as well . While you ’re get tutelage of yourself , you ’re actually being a shop steward of your own ecosystem .
So that got me thinking , what does it really intend to be a soul ? An somebody ? I ’m not simply call my own shots , I ’m doing the good to maintain some form of an sense of balance between all these dissimilar species . Is n’t that something we could stretch out , then , to our social meshwork and say , “ This is what we have to do with our satellite ? ”
Is n’t it hard to translate what some the great unwashed might view as some sort of unknown medical phenomenon into a more socially - orient worldview ?
I assume that my audience deserves to be given the welfare of the doubt . The interview desire to be challenged . My band has always been a thought-provoking banding , we endeavor to pen songs that make people think , and I adjudicate to do that in the manner that I present skill as well .
I struggle with the thought that competition might be a effective matter . rival even seems to be a core value behind America ’s achiever . How do you respond to people who say , “ Well , competition spurs people to do better , and sometimes it ’s good to have a good battle because everyone benefits . ”
I do n’t know what leads some people to that conclusion , because I see the same datum as them , and I come to a unlike finish . I see competition as a waste of time . The deed of conveyance of the account book is Population Wars , so obviously human war is one of the go back themes of the book . I cogitate the only reasonableness we continue this endless round of human warfare is because we have n’t live with our role as stewards of the satellite , our role as caretakers of other populations . As I level out in the book , warfare is an inevitable property of population . If there are limited resources there ’s going to be some variety of fallout . Usually in the past it ’s been ugly and red . But the end final result is always assimilation . Why do we have to have the minus aspects of this rival when we could just focus on inevitable absorption ?
I see what you ’re saying . Still , that idea is n’t very wanton for many hoi polloi to swallow . Could affair like the Syrian migrant crisis , or the impact of clime variety on develop body politic , help to exchange mind ? What could help lift us out of the mud of these really engrained ways of recall about competition and our own , single survival of the fittest ?
I ca n’t promise that there wo n’t be suffering in the futurity . I ca n’t forebode that this worldview is go to lead to an immediate end to all hurt . Because of that , I always say it ’s not a ego help Bible . But as a consistent worldview , it points out that there is this hope that the final stage of suffering could be within our grasp . It ’s going to take the answers to really outspoken questions , questions like , “ how many human being can we support on this major planet ? ” I believe we could find resolution for that . All in the sake of egest distress . If we practice science , if we use intelligence decently , I do n’t mean that ’s unsurmountable .
Syrian refugees in Vienna , September 2015.Josh Zakary . CC BY - NC 2.0 .
So then the challenge is have this worldview make its room up to people who make enceinte decision , no ?
precisely . Policymakers should translate this Word of God . get ’s not be naif . Do n’t draw a blank that the Darwinian worldview , which really begin around the 1830s , did n’t really become accepted until 150 eld later . Your fair student in form school day maybe has heard of natural selection today . But intelligent conception / creationism is still alive and well , and that worldview go back to pre - classical Greece .
Let ’s not pull the leg of ourselves . Worldviews take a prospicient time to germinate . But someone ’s got to present it before it can be study as something that anyone can refer to . Maybe someone will refer to these reflexion and agree that they ’re worthy .
Has your music also been a successful fomite for your ideas ? Do fans add up to you say that your song or writing really alter their minds about these things ?
When masses tell me , “ Your song made me want to meditate biota , ” it ’s very meaningful to me . But I do n’t have any belief that it ’s really changing the Earth . I really value the impression that it ’s had , the positive result , on people . But I do n’t have any misconceptions that it ’s changing everyone ’s judgement .
How do you palpate about the time to come of the scientific attempt ?
I bed doing science . It ’s a destiny of playfulness to keep nature , I enjoy it as a pursuit . I ’m trained as a life scientist , but my vocation is really in medicine . That calling comes from a profoundly - held opinion that through aggregate media , you’re able to contact more people and you’re able to have a great impact , and you’re able to gainsay people . I do talk about it a lilliputian snatch in Population Wars , how pass on scientific discipline is probably the greatest challenge and the most important thing face the future of our planet and the future of our species .
Being able to explicate these thing to the universal public has never been easier . Consider all the National Geographic channels , the Discovery television channel … it ’s easy to get these stories out there , to show people the worldly concern they live in . To me that ’s the area of great promise for enlightening hoi polloi .
But we also have to treat the big implication of science . We demand to consult the philosophers , the historiographer of science , the people who understand these implications so their tale can get out as well . The data is one matter , but the implications of scientific discipline ? That storey still needs to be severalize .
The internet has been a bang-up tool for communication between people of different worldviews , and people that live across the satellite , but a lot of what happens online seems like a regression into universe war . Do you think we ’re ever going to figure out how to rein in such a strong , and immediate venue of communication for right ?
I imagine we ’re in an era now that ’s gon na be seen as the early era of the net , and in the early era freedom is everything . I consider some of those freedoms will be curtail in the futurity , in the interest of calibre information . Take Wikipedia . In the early days it was a innocent for all , and you could n’t trust the site because you did n’t know if its sources were legitimate . What happened ? Well Wikipedia bootstrapped it , they fasten up their heading a little bit , and they made , as I understand it , board of theater director and boards of referees of people who insure the veracity of statements that were being made . They implemented a system of rules where you had to use point of reference of where you get your information . They cut down on a exemption that was being ill-treat , and I think that ’s going to materialize in other areas as well . It ’s not such a spoiled thing , if we need to count on the cyberspace for information gather .
Earth ’s light . NASA Goddard Space Flight Center . milliliter BY 2.0 .
How do you feel about punk rock today ? Does punk rock still exist ?
That ’s a problematical doubt . I do n’t go to punk rocker shows . I perform strong-armer shows and I get to see the bands that open for us . The small fry in those bands are usually just as motivated and dedicated to the hoodlum lifestyle as I was when I was their age . And our consultation is still punk . Of course there ’s still punk rock-and-roll . It ’s turning out to be one of the longest - know genre of medicine in beingness . So I think that ’s a testimonial to the fact that people still feel that agency , they still finger something of a kindred spirit to call themselves punk . I ’ve always tell it ’s all about the way you think anyhow , not the room you look . Maybe there ’s something punk about the way I opine .
That ’s awesome . So are you affirmative about the futurity of humanity ?
Yes , I ’m an optimist . Always have been .
Top image : Flickr userweather_forecast . CC BY - NC - ND 2.0 .
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